Shogun 2 Yari Wall

Shogun 2 Yari Wall
Shogun 2 Double Yari Wall

Yari Samurai aren't a particularly useful unit as they're expensive yet cavalry can outmaneuver them, their main perk is the rapid advance skill to use them as a make-shift flanking unit for the charge bonus. Against cavalry Yari Ashigaru are a cheap, effective static defense and Yari Cavalry can intercept other horse units. Jan 03, 2013 Steam Workshop: Total War: SHOGUN 2. Gives Yari Samurai the Spear Wall ability, just like the Ashigaru. Yes, I know: Historically the samurai did not fight in formation. However, I am their Daimyo and I will darn well order them to b.

Shogun 2 Yari Wall

Shogun 2 Double Yari Wall

Comments

edited April 2011
Yari Samurai are completely useless and not cost effective in the least.
Don't use them.
Good advice for harder difficulties is to suicide them as soon as you can in combat
edited April 2011
Yari Samurai is the rich mans Yari Ashigaru. If you can afford it great and if not your not missing too much.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on Earth... -Bertrand Russell
edited April 2011
how exactly can they kill nodachis ?
Yari samurai suck, worst unit in the game overall, imo. Not that they're bad to have if you've got some, but I'd never spend money on them. The spear dojo exists solely to build naginatas, who have a role in being a living wall.
Tenshu Capturing in Sieges Needs Improving!
Daimyo should not respawn
edited April 2011
Both spear units take on cavalry, but they do it in different ways.
Yari samurai is better suited to offense with their 30 charge bonus and rapid advance ability. They don't have spear-wall ability, so they are a sitting duck when standing still.
Yari ashigaru is better suited for defense with their pathetic charge bonus of 1 and spear wall ability. They are meant to sit tight and protect flanks, instead of chasing after horses.
edited April 2011
Why would you chase after horses with a foot unit? Even with rapid advance any horse unit can outrun a yari samurai. They're only useful for assaultiing cavalry that are already engaged, which yari ashigaru do well too.
Tenshu Capturing in Sieges Needs Improving!
Daimyo should not respawn
edited April 2011
Yea, only built spear dojos for the naginata. Have never recruited Yari Samurai.
Interesting Signature.
If you disagree with the above comment, your lying, because your still reading.
edited April 2011
yari samurai is absolutely useless. if you need anti-cavalry forces, use yari cavalry and/or great guards
Senior MemberPosts: 7,336Registered Users
Considering that 'yari samurai' are what samurai on foot actually were in this period .... I hope CA doesn't use their 'creativity' to include 'balance' and 'fun' in Rome II and in so doing make Roman Legionaries the most useless unit in the next game.
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edited April 2011
Why would you chase after horses with a foot unit? Even with rapid advance any horse unit can outrun a yari samurai. They're only useful for assaultiing cavalry that are already engaged, which yari ashigaru do well too.

Its for intercepting incoming cavalry, which yari ashigaru is poorly suited for, since they move too slowly when it comes to reacting to orders. When you try to get melee units to flank around and they get smashed by cavalry, you'll lose a great chunk by the time the slow pokes yari ashigaru appears.
Senior MemberPosts: 7,336Registered Users
Its for intercepting incoming cavalry, which yari ashigaru is poorly suited for, since they move too slowly when it comes to reacting to orders. When you try to get melee units to flank around and they get smashed by cavalry, you'll lose a great chunk by the time the slow pokes yari ashigaru appears.

Yet ... 'ashigaru' means 'light foot.' One would think that since ashigaru wear less armor that would make them faster.
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edited April 2011
Yet ... 'ashigaru' means 'light foot.' One would think that since ashigaru wear less armor that would make them faster.

They are still peasant soldiers and they react to orders very slowly, compared to the more disciplined units. I find elite units like warrior monks very responsive when it comes to issuing them orders.
edited April 2011
how exactly can they kill nodachis ?
Yari samurai suck, worst unit in the game overall, imo. Not that they're bad to have if you've got some, but I'd never spend money on them. The spear dojo exists solely to build naginatas, who have a role in being a living wall.

Since the No-dachi have one defense skill. But that only if the yari caught them before their charge.
At the end of the day, if someone cares enough to come and post on the forums, it doesn't matter if the post is good or bad, it means that Total War is something really important to them, so I don't take it personaly.
-Will CA
Criticizing is not wrong, initating a witch hunt however is.
edited April 2011
There is a mod that gives Yari Samurai spear wall. That makes them immensely useful but in the vanilla version they are one of the more useless units
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edited April 2011
Its for intercepting incoming cavalry, which yari ashigaru is poorly suited for, since they move too slowly when it comes to reacting to orders. When you try to get melee units to flank around and they get smashed by cavalry, you'll lose a great chunk by the time the slow pokes yari ashigaru appears.

This is a good point, but then.
Yari cavalry ?
I guess they have less effectiveness vs other yari cavalry though, but that seems a pretty niche role to fill
Tenshu Capturing in Sieges Needs Improving!
Daimyo should not respawn
edited April 2011
I find Yari Samurai good when it comes to defend something and fighting will be fierce, they fill the role of core defensive unit. Yari Ashigaru are less resistant to morale shocks, die faster, are more vulnerable to missiles and without a monk or general they'll more likely run away than Yari Samurai.
'I can be beaten a hundred times, and still I will rise again, as strong as before'.
'Cowards and traitors deserve no second thoughts, only their complete annihilation'.
edited April 2011
I like the yari samurai, my fav anti-cavalry unit. Better than naginata vs cavalry and overall better than yari ashigaru. I just wish they had the spear wall ability instead of rapid advance, it would suit their anti-cavalry role and make them soo much better that we wouldnt be having this convo
edited April 2011
Okey let's see.
However, they can't kill anything other than cav or No-dachis
My 20 kr.

they can kill no-dachi's..maybe its because im Date but i have never seen a non battle worn no-dachi lose to a yari and even then the yari lost over half its men.
Senior MemberPosts: 1,216Registered Users
yari samurai should have spear wall and spear square as far as im concerned, without thoses things ya they are pritty useless compaired to the spear ashigaru
edited April 2011
I still find the Yari Samurai quite useful even in the face of the criticsm
Its true they aren't as powerful as Naginata ( which i love to bits for my armies)
but they have a higher attack and defense/morale than Ashigaru and come from a first level building.
I do believe if the AI used more Cavalry heavy armies, their presence would be more important.
The base attack of a Yari Sam is only 6 but still respectable early game I think. Also their melee defence is quite high.
Their rapid advance might be a poor substitute for spear wall, but I find its handy for racing to engage a general who is heading towards my lines or chasing down routing troops in lieu of light cavalry. I think historically a spearwall was a very Greek idea before the age of manouvre was important. Its not a very sopisticated concept so suits unsophisticated peasants
edited April 2011
There is a mod that gives Yari Samurai spear wall. That makes them immensely useful but in the vanilla version they are one of the more useless units

Link please? I searched but couldn't find it.
Yari Samurai's upkeep costs the same as Katana and Naginata samurai, but is worse than both of them. Only good for anti-Cavalry. Considering they should be the mainstay of Sengoku armies and probably are easier to train, I think they should cost less, or have higher upkeep for Katana and Naginata Samurai.
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edited April 2011
AUM = Additional Units Mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=429938
edited April 2011
I think the reason for the samurai not having spear wall was because how the samurai was. A samurai fights alone and not as a unit, while the ashigaru are trained peasant that can only win if they work together as a unit. But that's just wild guessing
But still, why does samurai have 6 attack? You atleast expect a better punch from them from their poor man version.
(Clarificaction: Yari ashigaru have 6 attack too.)
At the end of the day, if someone cares enough to come and post on the forums, it doesn't matter if the post is good or bad, it means that Total War is something really important to them, so I don't take it personaly.
-Will CA
Criticizing is not wrong, initating a witch hunt however is.
edited April 2011
I think the reason for the samurai not having spear wall was because how the samurai was. A samurai fights alone and not as a unit, while the ashigaru are trained peasant that can only win if they work together as a unit. But that's just wild guessing
But still, why does samurai have 6 attack? You atleast expect a better punch from them from their poor man version.
(Clarificaction: Yari ashigaru have 6 attack too.)

Historic accuray had often to step back for balancing gameplay in any TW games,
so why not here ? The Spearwall formation would make them far more useful (cost effectivness).
Right now Yari Ahsigaru are superior to yari samurai in MP. Especially b/c the Speedupgrades are broken.
And people hardly uses much cav. b/c cav isn´t really cost effetcive too...
BTW
I think you not right about samurai fighting not as unit,
maybe in early periods yes, but not in the late sengoku jidai (so when the game starts)
edited April 2011
Historic accuray had often to step back for balancing gameplay in any TW games,
so why not here ? The Spearwall formation would make them far more useful (cost effectivness).
Right now Yari Ahsigaru are superior to yari samurai in MP. Especially b/c the Speedupgrades are broken.
And people hardly uses much cav. b/c cav isn´t really cost effetcive too...

True to that, Gameplay > Historical accuracy. I just said that due to my own speculation.
The spear wall would make the YS the best defensive unit in the market, considering a YA can hold off Katanas off relative well. But I think CA intended them as a mobil counter to cavalries which imo AI and most people fail at using so what's the point?
I have to disagree about the cavalry statement though. Hammer and anvil can go a really long way and the initial charge rips up anything that isn't wielding a spear.
At the end of the day, if someone cares enough to come and post on the forums, it doesn't matter if the post is good or bad, it means that Total War is something really important to them, so I don't take it personaly.
-Will CA
Criticizing is not wrong, initating a witch hunt however is.
Senior MemberPosts: 287Registered Users
Yari Samurai, like No Dachi are a niche unit, but they have their uses. In particular I find them useful on the wings of the army for several reasons.
1. Cavalry typically operate on the wings/flanks so having the Yari Samurai here is useful as a hard counter
2. Your units on either end of your line will often be operating outside the radius of your general's influence, yari ahigaru in this situation tend to run away quickly.
3. They are quick, with a good charge value. Their special ability allows them to operate almost like a unit of cavalry if the enemy leaves them free to run down a flank and a good side/rear charge by them can be pretty good for beginning a rout, when they turn on their special power their charge value is pretty darn good. Naginata in the same role are slower, fatigue easier and do not have the same shock capability on the charge. The Yari are also cheaper than the Naginata.
Anyways I don't typically use them in single player, however have used them in most of my multi games and while the won't beat Katana or Naginata in a straight fight they will lose SLOWLY, which makes them ideal for hammer & anvil tactics. They also still comfortably beat the pants off any type of archer unit and with good morale can operate independently in a manner which ashigaru cannot (good for springing ambushes).
So to summarise - they are not a frontline combat unit, but more of a reserve/flank unit able to operate independently to plug holes or fend off flanking cavalry.
edited April 2011
Snip

Pretty much how I used them in MP battles.
However a YS may lose slowly but a Naginata lose more slowly. A katana barely wins against Naginata while against YS they just take time so chop their arms off with low causualties.
If you use YS you have a good chance to catch cavalries red handed before their charge compared to YA.
At the end of the day, if someone cares enough to come and post on the forums, it doesn't matter if the post is good or bad, it means that Total War is something really important to them, so I don't take it personaly.
-Will CA
Criticizing is not wrong, initating a witch hunt however is.
edited April 2011
True to that, Gameplay > Historical accuracy. I just said that due to my own speculation.
The spear wall would make the YS the best defensive unit in the market, considering a YA can hold off Katanas off relative well. But I think CA intended them as a mobil counter to cavalries which imo AI and most people fail at using so what's the point?

The point is, that Yari Samurai is the Elite and SHOULD be able to act in both ways formidable,
offensive AND defensive... thats my opinion
And cav is still not cost effective, b/c for one KatanaCav I can get 2.5 Yari Ashigaru,
wich will surely keep them away, hold em off or beat them down.
I have to disagree about the cavalry statement though. Hammer and anvil can go a really long way and the initial charge rips up anything that isn't wielding a spear.

Well Naginatas will do the job hardly less effective than Yari samurai and are of more flexible use,
wich is important in MP where I don´t know what opponent forces will awaits me in battle.
Its a joke that foot soldiers main purpose is to charge cav.
b/c most of the time they will be too exhausted by doing so.
Defensive positions should be main part of their job, with samurais able to go offensive as well.
edited April 2011
Long quote.

YS are not suppose to charge them, they are suppose to intercept them. That's how I see it anyway, but really Yari cav does that infintely better and every MP army has a unit of them. And yes naginata does their job a lot better than Yari in every aspect.
Still those katana cav will kill any ashigaru if they hit their rear.
At the end of the day, if someone cares enough to come and post on the forums, it doesn't matter if the post is good or bad, it means that Total War is something really important to them, so I don't take it personaly.
-Will CA
Criticizing is not wrong, initating a witch hunt however is.
edited April 2011
And cav is still not cost effective, b/c for one KatanaCav I can get 2.5 Yari Ashigaru, wich will surely keep them away, hold em off or beat them down.
Wrong. You assume that everyone will charge head on your yari ashigaru? What surprises me is the fact that very few people keep themselves on their guard and watch out for any ambushes.
'I can be beaten a hundred times, and still I will rise again, as strong as before'.
'Cowards and traitors deserve no second thoughts, only their complete annihilation'.
edited April 2011
YS are not suppose to charge them, they are suppose to intercept them. That's how I see it anyway, but really Yari cav does that infintely better and every MP army has a unit of them. And yes naginata does their job a lot better than Yari in every aspect.
Still those katana cav will kill any ashigaru if they hit their rear.

To intercept them, I have to charge them
But as you said, Yari Cav is far better on this...
And sure Katana Cav messes up ashigarus (if in their back anyway),
but 2.5 to 1 will at least hold em off, inflict heavy losses and you can use a formation
that makes it hard for the cav to get in their back...